GForce Engineering fully-fabricated 9” IRS With modified cradle

[Linda's Hell Cat]

@Ta2ude

I think we’ve all been trying to politely say you don’t need it, but here’s the thing —
From past experience, I’ve shared something I call paperwork marketing—it sounds appealing and is inexpensive to get. Do you happen to have any time slips from your friend when he had the G-force installed?

How long has this been out of his Hellcat? I’m willing to bet that if you ever decide you want it, he’ll probably still have them.

You will lose so much in Daily Driving!

 

[Ta2ude]

Did you look closely at the picture?
There is actually more to this kit than I initially thought.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

I am not sure why the photo only comes up as an attachment ?
Let me know if you can still view it or not. View attachment 174900

I think others will chime in and we can see what they say.

I just decided to be the one to say you don’t need to spend money on this now when you could put it toward something in the future that might be needed after getting more seat time.
Eventually you may want to Tune your RE, that will require adding parts. Or you may find you want the AAD parts.

Back in 2015, my husband, known as "Top Cat," aimed for his first run in the 9’s, but truthfully, he was chasing the 8’s. He couldn’t spend money fast enough. Thankfully, Josh at HHP, with his R&D and T&T approach, focused on making just a few changes and testing. My husband would buy parts and send them to HHP, and Bruce, who runs the race shop, would tell him, “We’re not installing that this week, John—you’re on the track!” That seat time mattered to him, even with his previous experience in a 2011 Mopar Drag Pak.

 

[Marc W]

$3500 is certainly a good price for what’s in the picture. I see the AAD control arms and Gforce axles along with the differential. I assume the drive shaft is also a part of the package. The fact that it is already assembled means a simple cradle swap and you’re done. That would be some savings as far as labor goes. Downside could be that you are lowering your gear ratio to what will make 1st gear too short to work. Especially as you increase power. Look into what you need to know about launching in 2nd gear. And I will repeat this…. A 15” wheel/tire combination is 1000% better than a 17. I don’t care what kind of performance somebody got on a tight radial prep track with a 17. Real world… on the street and ordinary track surfaces, the 15 works when a 17 doesn’t.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

$3500 is certainly a good price for what’s in the picture. I see the AAD control arms and Gforce axles along with the differential. I assume the drive shaft is also a part of the package. The fact that it is already assembled means a simple cradle swap and you’re done. That would be some savings as far as labor goes. Downside could be that you are lowering your gear ratio to what will make 1st gear too short to work. Especially as you increase power. Look into what you need to know about launching in 2nd gear. And I will repeat this…. A 15” wheel/tire combination is 1000% better than a 17. I don’t care what kind of performance somebody got on a tight radial prep track with a 17. Real world… on the street and ordinary track surfaces, the 15 works when a 17 doesn’t.

This was the list I saw.
2015+Mopar Modified Cradle &complete 9” IRS kit with 3.25 gears, a 4” aluminum drive shaft and the GForce Outlaw axels currently set up with a spool but also has an Eaton Detroit Truetrac that he would sell me for 25 cents on the dollar.

@Marc W I'm glad you knew about everything, but he still wants to daily Drive with his wife and probably more DD the Track. Do you think he should install things in stages. Racing 10's all that seems to me to be for lower 9's?

 

[Ta2ude]

$3500 is certainly a good price for what’s in the picture. I see the AAD control arms and Gforce axles along with the differential. I assume the drive shaft is also a part of the package. The fact that it is already assembled means a simple cradle swap and you’re done. That would be some savings as far as labor goes. Downside could be that you are lowering your gear ratio to what will make 1st gear too short to work. Especially as you increase power. Look into what you need to know about launching in 2nd gear. And I will repeat this…. A 15” wheel/tire combination is 1000% better than a 17. I don’t care what kind of performance somebody got on a tight radial prep track with a 17. Real world… on the street and ordinary track surfaces, the 15 works when a 17 doesn’t.

I think others will chime in and we can see what they say.

I just decided to be the one to say you don’t need to spend money on this now when you could put it toward something in the future that might be needed after getting more seat time.
Eventually you may want to Tune your RE, that will require adding parts. Or you may find you want the AAD parts.

Back in 2015, my husband, known as "Top Cat," aimed for his first run in the 9’s, but truthfully, he was chasing the 8’s. He couldn’t spend money fast enough. Thankfully, Josh at HHP, with his R&D and T&T approach, focused on making just a few changes and testing. My husband would buy parts and send them to HHP, and Bruce, who runs the race shop, would tell him, “We’re not installing that this week, John—you’re on the track!” That seat time mattered to him, even with his previous experience in a 2011 Mopar Drag Pak.

Thanks Linda I do appreciate your advice and input and your respectfull responses to the newbie who doesn’t seem to be listening.
I do see from your response though that you didn’t catch what I was referencing in the picture, it has what I would assume as the full AAD drag Pack already installed, or at the very least the wheel hop eliminator kit.
The Drag Pack alone would cost me $2500 Canadian.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Thanks Linda I do appreciate your advice and input and your respectfull responses to the newbie who doesn’t seem to be listening.
I do see from your response though that you didn’t catch what I was referencing in the picture, it has what I would assume as the full AAD drag Pack already installed, or at the very least the wheel hop eliminator kit.
The Drag Pack alone would cost me $2500 Canadian.

AAD parts are valuable and as Mark said The Drag pak is $1,499.00 ohn HHP's site and no holiday sale on that yet.

AAD Billet Drag Pack for 05-23 Challenger, Charger, Magnum & 300
Wheel hop eliminator is 1,129.00
AAD Billet Wheel Hop Eliminator Kit for 05-23 Challenger, Charger, Magnum & 300

You are correct and I now think you are getting great parts for the price.

 

[Ta2ude]

$3500 is certainly a good price for what’s in the picture. I see the AAD control arms and Gforce axles along with the differential. I assume the drive shaft is also a part of the package. The fact that it is already assembled means a simple cradle swap and you’re done. That would be some savings as far as labor goes. Downside could be that you are lowering your gear ratio to what will make 1st gear too short to work. Especially as you increase power. Look into what you need to know about launching in 2nd gear. And I will repeat this…. A 15” wheel/tire combination is 1000% better than a 17. I don’t care what kind of performance somebody got on a tight radial prep track with a 17. Real world… on the street and ordinary track surfaces, the 15 works when a 17 doesn’t.

Mark thanks for your input and I see you noticed the AAD stuff in the photo, I didn’t even realize this was included. The one piece aluminum drive shaft is leaning against the wall in the photo.
He also has the “Hellcat rear drag racing kit and will wood forged rear parking brake kit that he would sell me and I believe a set of 15” Weld wheels I could buy. My dilemma was I had already purchased a brand new set of 17” Forgestar beadlocks and front skinnies when I thought that would be all I needed to race. I wanted to keep the cost down by not doing the conversion.
Maybe I should see what he wants for everything and try to sell my Forgestars without losing to much $$ ?
Either way again I appreciate all the input as everyone seems to have good intentions with their advice. That being said I am meeting the guy at his shop at 1:00pm and at a minimum I will be buying the cradle kit.
I guess a tune will be in my future to make up for the potential hp loss from this set up.

 

[Linda's Hell Cat]

Mark thanks for your input and I see you noticed the AAD stuff in the photo, I didn’t even realize this was included. The one piece aluminum drive shaft is leaning against the wall in the photo.
He also has the “Hellcat rear drag racing kit and will wood forged rear parking brake kit that he would sell me and I believe a set of 15” Weld wheels I could buy. My dilemma was I had already purchased a brand new set of 17” Forgestar beadlocks and front skinnies when I thought that would be all I needed to race. I wanted to keep the cost down by not doing the conversion.
Maybe I should see what he wants for everything and try to sell my Forgestars without losing to much $$ ?
Either way again I appreciate all the input as everyone seems to have good intentions with their advice. That being said I am meeting the guy at his shop at 1:00pm and at a minimum I will be buying the cradle kit.
I guess a tune will be in my future to make up for the potential hp loss from this set up.

Mark knows what he is looking at when it comes to parts for sure; he's been around a long time too and has modified his Hellcat over the years to an Extreme race car.

Just an FYI, My Hellcat has a Tune for Daily Driving, which I love, 93 Pump gas, then for Dragracing My Supercharger is pully up, My Bogarts Wheels are exchanged, I use race gas, then change my Tune.
I have many parts and supporting parts installed, but My Charger Hellcat had the 1st Diablo Tune installed back in 2015. Today there are many different ways to go faster including a Transmission Tune.

I like to race 10's the lowest ET ran was a 9.2 by Josh, My PB is a 9.7 Which you need a little more for when racing 10's.

 

[RGPIII]

I will say the phot that you posted is worth well over the price you are offered it for. I will offer my 2 cents. My car runs well into the 7's on a set of DSS level 5 axles, a billet IMS rear, cradle lock out and AAD kit. It really depends on how much power you plan to throw at it? if you are planning a built engine and trans them by all means that is great setup for you. if you aren't going to go all in, a simple cradle lock out, AAD kit and P4D diff brace and you're all set.

 

[Ta2ude]

So I picked up all my stuff yesterday and had a tour of the shop, which was amazing. I saw his 1700+ HP Redeye with a huge blower that is running in the 8’s and his 1000HP Street Hellcat that is running in the 9’s.
I won’t post any pictures of the shop or mention his name on social media because I never asked his permission for that, but I can tell you this man is a stellar human being who was willing to share anything he could to help. His shop was amazing with 4 guys working on various builds from resto-mods to custom Harley’s. He had a number of seacans stacked up and layed out inside the shop to section it off and he pointed to one stack and rolled a set of stairs over and said “ this one is full of Redeye parts” and invited me to check them all out. He said” when you want to go faster everything you need is here in this container “.
All of his pro-mod cars and serious race stuff was down in the USA at the moment but he said sometime in May they will be doing testing here and renting the drag strip that is 30 minutes from my house for 3 or 4 days and he invited my wife and I to join them. He said he wants to show me how to do a proper launch and give me a few pointers that will save me some frustration and possibly broken parts and $$. He also mentioned when I am ready to do a tune to give Curt Dusterhoff a call and he would be able to help me with the HP gains.
One huge bonus is everything is already together including all the parts I would have had to switch from my car to the new cradle. I did notice a couple small “issues” with the parts after I got them home but I don’t think they are too serious. The driveshaft boot had a very small puncture or tear in it maybe 1/8-1/4” and there was a small groove maybe .020 thousands of an inch deep in the driveshaft where it had rubbed against something. The other thing I noticed is the rear stabilizer bar had made contact with a piece of the AAD kit, likely more than once, and left a blemish where it rubbed some of the aluminum away, you can see this in the last picture.
I also got a spare set of brand new outlaw axels and another set of inner and outer stubs and a set of springs. They couldn’t remember exactly what springs they were other than those were the ones they were told to use.
Overall it was a very exciting day and I feel extremely fortunate that I have made a great contact who seems more than willing to help me and share any information he could.
My other passion is dogs and I recently “completed “ (training is never done) training Ripper, my GSD, to bring him to a level 3 PPD or personal protection dog and he is seen happily guarding the shop and overseeing the build.

 

[DGatzby]

So I realize pretty much everyone who has responded to this thread has held the same opinion, that I should avoid this modified cradle and full IRS with 9” differential kit, as it is overkill for my car and may even make me slower.
Most people feel I can run my car stock with 17” drag radials without concern, as the Redeye drivetrain is 20% stronger than the Hellcats already.
Yesterday for the first time, I actually got to see a picture of everything included in this deal.
I respectfully invite everyone who has taken the time to read this thread and share their opinions to look at the attached photo and tell me wether you still feel the same way, considering I would be paying about $3500 American for everything you see.

View attachment 174899

I am not impressed. I think you are buying a trunk load of problems. You can do a vote thread if you need it. Very experienced drag racing folks and even a very good tuner has responded here. Simple- I agree with my Bro’s and Sis who have responded to you.

Get what everyone else does!! You have people who responded to you chasing dramatic E/T’s and have succeeded AND then drive their cars to the market. That equipment you are asking about is not needed. We actually have not seen anyone post to do it, have we? If you want to do it, go for it, start a thread and tell us what goes right and what goes WRONG.

I have a lot of racing, wrenching, engineering and driving experience and am aging now, but, the past ten years has been with my Hellcats on road courses. And I’ll assure you I can run the absolute shit from A-Z out of these with each session. They hold up reasonably well compared to about anything else.

I HAVE busted more shit in road courses than most do drag racing. I have tried a lot of crap the last ten years. I have attempted to struck a balance btw keeping my car streetable and also capable of not breaking myself on closed courses.

I sold a ‘15 Hellcat because I battled simply lowering it caused chronic axle failure.

I got a ‘19 Redeye. This was a larger battle! I have frosted superchargers, converters and an engine. How did I win? Careful consultation on this forum with several who have responded to you! @Jon-MooredPerformanceLLC did some custom tunes for me from the street to a couple versions to use at the track. We had to make it able to replace the converters with a by-pass for the track. It’s powertrain is all else STOCK, except the brakes and adding about all of the AAD suspension parts a big BMR front sway brace, and the differential brace along with a real kool aftermarket suspension control module. She is one solid performer, a great RIDING and dependable street hot rod, AND if I desire to go up and punch a couple of quarter’s, I would simply need to just ask Jon for a drag tune, ask Linda what wheel/tire combo to use and I bet it would do just fine. Did not even touch a pulley! It even has room for lots more! E-85 is simply an injector set and another tune version away.

So I’ll give ya another opinion. Relax and enjoy it. Follow the advice here, I hope that is why you joined and asked all of us what we think as very, very experienced Hellcat owners.

 

[DGatzby]

After I posted and wasted my time giving you my opinion, I see you do not listen well. Go for it. What did I capitalize above???? What will go WRONG!

You have not even begun yet and???

The driveshaft boot had a very small puncture or tear in it maybe 1/8-1/4” and there was a small groove maybe .020 thousands of an inch deep in the driveshaft where it had rubbed against something. The other thing I noticed is the rear stabilizer bar had made contact with a piece of the AAD kit, likely more than once, and left a blemish where it rubbed some of the aluminum away, you can see this in the last picture.

 

[Marc W]

I will say this. What you got…. originally cost a lot more than what you paid for it. It’s not necessary for anything less than a 1200whp engine, but now you got it. I am probably the one person here that has had something similar. Mine was a DSS 9” conversion with their 35 spline axles and aluminum driveshaft. I ran stock shocks with 1320 springs (same as factory Demons). I used the full AAD setup and removed the sway bar. I used a 15” rear wheel with 315 M/T Radial Pro tires. Ran a best of 8.7 with a 1.25 sixty ft. at 4500 lbs in that configuration with an old 4.5 Whipple. That was six years ago. Here’s what is going to happen…. You will start chasing HP and the trans will become an issue. Stock trans won’t take dead hook launches at the 1000hp level and you’ll break it or start looking at what’s available to prevent it. The most common answer is going to be one of the max effort builds by one of the capable shops that do that. Get ready to spend another ten thousand dollars . Those weren’t available back when I was doing this so I went with a race built TH400. I started doing this seven years ago and always over built it with the strongest stuff available before it was necessary. I’ve got around a hundred 8 second passes (bests being 8.20’s) and I have never broken anything. So…. If you are going to shoot for the moon down the road, you are ahead of the game. If not….. you got a good deal on a bunch of stuff you don’t need. One last thing….. I would not use that driveshaft. Gforce driveshafts were never worth a shit and I wouldn’t use any shaft that has a groove cut in it. Good luck 👍🏼

 

[Ta2ude]

So I have a lot of things to address and account for it seems and I will try to do so.
1) I already knew I was going to ruffle some feathers by not following the advise I asked for and received and I even stated it previously. I did take everyone’s advice into consideration and hope you don’t feel like you wasted your time even though I didn’t follow it exactly.
2) I knew and realized this complete set up was overkill for my current HP but I am not sure how that makes it bad unless I was actually paying full retail and I completely agree that would be a waste of $$
3) This set up comes with the complete AAD Drag Pack which I can easily take off and put on my car and not even install the rest of the modified cradle if I choose. The AAD kit would cost me $2500+ CDN new
4) The driveshaft would cost me about $2000 CDN new

Now for the UGLY.
1) the driveshaft groove !
I admit that somehow I did not notice it at the time, I was on a bit of sensory overload from the shop tour and by the time we got to my parts the driveshaft got loaded into my truck as I was talking. I don’t believe it was done to hide anything and am sure I could get back my money for that if I asked. Which I may.
I will say here that although I am not a racer or mechanic I was a licensed machinist and tool and die maker for almost 20 years so I have a very good understanding of different metals and a degree of mechanical aptitude.
Part of the reason I missed the groove is because it was fairly “minor” I have physically measured the groove compared to the shaft and it is about .020” deep. To be exact the driveshaft OD was 3.980” diameter and the groove measured a diameter of 3.940”.
Aluminum is very soft so it wouldn’t have taken much to do this damage however it does concern me because I have zero driveshaft experience and am not sure if this would be enough damage to create a failure point or possibly an out of balance issue.
I would need to find these things out to be comfortable.
2) The damage to the AAD arm was also very minimal and this I am confident will pose zero issue to its function. The AAD stuff is very impressive and well built and it’s easy for me to see nothing is bent or out of whack. Again aluminum as you all know is very soft and the stabilizer bar on the other hand is quite hard so it wouldn’t have taken much contact or rubbing to produce the damage there was. I already cleaned it up with a small file and some emery paper.
3) I am not sure exactly how many HP he was running at the time he had this stuff installed but he obviously changed it for a reason, it wasn’t doing what he needed anymore.

I am sure I have missed a few things but that’s my story so far, for what it’s worth.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment.

 

[Ta2ude]

Thank you for your response. @Marc W
I was actually going to ask if anyone who had been gracious enough to volunteer their advice and thoughts actually had any experience with this “exact” or very similar set up or if they knew anyone that had.
It was great to hear their experiences and thoughts and I completely agree with everyone that this whole set up is overkill for me at the moment, but it does provide me a couple of options and it would seem to allow me room to increase HP in the future.
I also realize I said I wasn’t interested in boosting HP at the moment and felt dealing with traction issues should be my first concern before I chase more HP but I didn’t say I would never look to increase it.

 

[Ta2ude]

FYI these are the springs if anyone still cares. Lol
I hope everyone has a great weekend.

https://dtracing.com/product/dusterhoff-tuning-drag-springs/

 

[DGatzby]

So I realize pretty much everyone who has responded to this thread has held the same opinion, that I should avoid this modified cradle and full IRS with 9” differential kit, as it is overkill for my car and may even make me slower.
Most people feel I can run my car stock with 17” drag radials without concern, as the Redeye drivetrain is 20% stronger than the Hellcats already.
Yesterday for the first time, I actually got to see a picture of everything included in this deal.
I respectfully invite everyone who has taken the time to read this thread and share their opinions to look at the attached photo and tell me wether you still feel the same way, considering I would be paying about $3500 American for everything you see.

View attachment 174899

IDK, looks like this can still happen depending on the spring set etc. used…


You are not “ruffling and feathers”. I take delight in debates.

 

[Marc W]

My advice when there is a clearance issue and something is making contact… massage it enough to stop the problem. Modifications sometimes require that. It’s part of the game.

 

[DGatzby]

At what point do we diminish the structural value of the item? Lots of power to resist back there, from the vehicle and the way some of us drive from the suspension.