When to know to get out? I.e. sell.

[coolblue]

Sure it does. I'm always right just ask me and I'll tell you lol

Quote out of my wife's handbook: "I don't know why you argue with me...I'm always right."

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

So, I looked at your mod list… it’s long but there are only 2-3 things on it that will make you faster. You’ve done a lot of supporting mods, but they only keep you faster for longer and don’t contribute to the overall goal of running a 9.

Consider this, you basically have an upper pulley and an intake that hasn’t been proven to work. The blanket and spacers may be helping, but also - not the secret to 9s.
You don’t need E85 to go fast if you’re willing to run race gas… and you will only spend more money to convert and not see any meaningful gains at the track as a result. I’m saying that because the benefits of E85 come by way of cost, cooling, and octane. Cost is not a concern, cooling doesn’t have a dramatic effect on a 9 second glory pass, and you have all of the octane you need. Your tuner will gladly sell you more injector and a new tune to convert you. If you’re going to DD the car, I’d recommend it, but again - you don’t need ethanol for a 9 second pass.
You’ve also listed no driver side seat - that’s dedication to weight reduction! Haha, Jk. You’ve removed about 100-150lbs from a 4500lb car… so that was a good effort.

From an outsider’s perspective, going on what I’ve seen transpire over the last few pages here, I’d say this - You haven’t been doing the “right” things to run 9s. It sounds like your relationship with your tuner was either strained or non-existent… you need your tuner more than you need more power. You need to be putting in the time at the track and your tuner needs to be reviewing logs, revising the tune, and being your partner. They need to be contributing to the overall success of you and the car, not just that “the logs look good”. If he isn’t actively working to improve your 60’ pass after pass, you’re not getting a 9 (as previously mentioned). The overall tune-up has a lot to do with that… You are going to have a hell of a time going at this alone, you’re gonna need help.
And don’t take it the wrong way, I’m sure that you’ve been trying hard, but focusing that energy and money in the right direction will help you reach your goals. The fast guys have spent hundreds of hours with their tuners… not just a few emails back and forth with logs. If you’re somewhere in the middle, that’s great… but it takes dedication from both of you.

My $0.02 - skip the E for now, concentrate on seat time and working closely with the tuner to get the slip that the car is capable of before going down that road.
If converting to E is the spark you need to start trying again, so be it, but it’ll come at the cost of downtime, new tune from scratch, and ordering or finding good E85.

 

[Speedy!]

That's a perfect scenario, but hard to achieve via remote tuning. I keep harping on ChallengerFest, but a couple of the tuners sponsor the event and show up and spend a lot of their day making tune changes for customers right there track side. Dusterhoff and OST were both there last year and I know OST is coming this year and sponsoring track prep again. Dusterhoff may be there but I'm not 100% on that but he's sponsoring the Hellcat class regardless.

Crew Chief Greg shaved 2 or 3/10 from his car and now has a very dialed in race tune from time spent at last year's event. The only other way to get that is to fly the tuner out to you, which is out of most folks' budget.

 

[fumanchu182]

I would like to go but I will have started my new job Sept 7th and don't know what that weekend will be like schedule wise (learning i'm on a 24/7 rotation).

That's a perfect scenario, but hard to achieve via remote tuning. I keep harping on ChallengerFest, but a couple of the tuners sponsor the event and show up and spend a lot of their day making tune changes for customers right there track side. Dusterhoff and OST were both there last year and I know OST is coming this year and sponsoring track prep again. Dusterhoff may be there but I'm not 100% on that but he's sponsoring the Hellcat class regardless.

Crew Chief Greg shaved 2 or 3/10 from his car and now has a very dialed in race tune from time spent at last year's event. The only other way to get that is to fly the tuner out to you, which is out of most folks' budget.

Would love to sync up with a tuner at the event and get it race dialed in.

 

[Mean Cat]

@fumanchu182 ,
I think some throw a lot of parts at a car & spend a lot of money on those parts & think it'll go faster & when it doesn't they get frustrated & disappointed that the money & time spent wasn't worth it & you have expectations that it doesn't meet. Is it a race car or street & occasional track car ? Then when you get too deep in money they want to sell it because it's not fun anymore to drive on the street.
If your goal is to run 9's regardless of DA is tougher but to run 9's in negative DA & low 10's in higher DA your already there. I'm at this same point on 93 tune, I run 9's in negative DA & low 10's in the heat. We have to remember that anything in the 10's is a fast car, but we get greedy & want more so we get off track & spend more money & if not done right then we start blowing up parts or worse engines. Be happy & content with your car & she will please you more.
That being said, LOL, I think a 3.09 will help your 60', your on a 315 tire already so put that tire to work with a 3.09. Get that 60' down a little & you'll be in the 9's with low DA.

 

[Speedy!]

@fumanchu182 alternatively you could see if the tuner does private track rentals somewhere and go to one of those. May be closer but it's definitely time well spent to get a car tightened up on the tune.

Edit to add: Besides weather conditions, track conditions are a big factor at this level as well. I probably have 100 or more time slips to compare from various tracks and various weather. Most are from Beech Bend (home track) which makes tracking changes a bit easier. I have 3 or 4 race tunes I keep with varying power at the launch to get that dialed in based on how the track is hooking. Example my full power launch tune would only give me a 10.0 to 10.1. I dropped in my -100HP launch tune and ran a 9.84. The difference was 100% in the 60'. MPH was exactly the same for all passes at 137. 60' went from a 1.59 to a 1.51. This was before any suspension changes. With the AAD drag pack I'll see 1.42 to 1.44 if prep is on point. I'm still on the stock springs and shocks but seems the AAD drag pack has allowed a bit more MPH as it's now in the 141mph range presumably due to less rolling resistance.

 

[SilverBillet]

What I said...work on the 60’ time. Your drivetrain has to be ready for you to come off the line harder.

 

[white1]

@fumanchu182 alternatively you could see if the tuner does private track rentals somewhere and go to one of those. May be closer but it's definitely time well spent to get a car tightened up on the tune.

Edit to add: Besides weather conditions, track conditions are a big factor at this level as well. I probably have 100 or more time slips to compare from various tracks and various weather. Most are from Beech Bend (home track) which makes tracking changes a bit easier. I have 3 or 4 race tunes I keep with varying power at the launch to get that dialed in based on how the track is hooking. Example my full power launch tune would only give me a 10.0 to 10.1. I dropped in my -100HP launch tune and ran a 9.84. The difference was 100% in the 60'. MPH was exactly the same for all passes at 137. 60' went from a 1.59 to a 1.51. This was before any suspension changes. With the AAD drag pack I'll see 1.42 to 1.44 if prep is on point. I'm still on the stock springs and shocks but seems the AAD drag pack has allowed a bit more MPH as it's now in the 141mph range presumably due to less rolling resistance.

People rarely take track conditions into the equation.
My best pass so far is 10.19 @135.87 with a 1.550 60' leaving in 2nd because the track wouldn't hook if I left in 1st. Same day, in first gear I went 15.981 @ 133.7 with a 6.170 60'

I too am struggling for a 9 sec pass, however I want to do it in horrible DA. IIRC the 10.19 was at 2800ish DA.

Just ordered some AAD rear control arms. Hopefully these combined with my current BMR trailing arms will keep wheel hop at bay, and hopefully help me get into the mid 1.4 60' range

 

[jonx96]

People rarely take track conditions into the equation.
My best pass so far is 10.19 @135.87 with a 1.550 60' leaving in 2nd because the track wouldn't hook if I left in 1st. Same day, in first gear I went 15.981 @ 133.7 with a 6.170 60'

I too am struggling for a 9 sec pass, however I want to do it in horrible DA. IIRC the 10.19 was at 2800ish DA.

Just ordered some AAD rear control arms. Hopefully these combined with my current BMR trailing arms will keep wheel hop at bay, and hopefully help me get into the mid 1.4 60' range

It will help your wheel hop. I have seen wheel hop 1 time. It was about 55 or 60 out on a crap road and I matted it from a 60 roll on my E85 tune. I think the road condition was more the issue. I have been really impressed by the feeling of the car since doing the AAD kit.
I've been considering the diablo suspension controller. But for 1k I have been debating if my money is better spent on something else.

 

[Hickster]

Yea meez 2 as I am using 110 leaded 110??? Burnt up alot of stuff dada waz.

 

[Boris]

This is greet conversations being the Electric Revolution is bringing insane power to vehicles we never would have imagined would be at the hands of so many here. So as far as power I think years ahead some will laugh at us saying 700hp is only for track racing😁. And just dial back the clock to 2011 and I post a thread a 700hp factory built car within reasonable pricing and as reliable and comfortable as a daily driver😳. So many would be like no way that’s happening and laugh at me.

Dial that number back to 500hp.
You had to build the car and only Ford had the balls to put a supercharger on their V8.
When GM and Mopar got involved is when the HP race finally took off.

As for the EVs, they need these stupid HP numbers otherwise it won't get people's attention. I won't be 1 bit shocked if the new Dodge eMuscle Car beats the Demon's elapsed time.

 

[coolblue]

Dial that number back to 500hp.
You had to build the car and only Ford had the balls to put a supercharger on their V8.
When GM and Mopar got involved is when the HP race finally took off.

As for the EVs, they need these stupid HP numbers otherwise it won't get people's attention. I won't be 1 bit shocked if the new Dodge eMuscle Car beats the Demon's elapsed time.

Lets get the facts straight. The only reason Ford put a supercharger on there V8 had nothing to do with balls. There POS couldn't keep up with the naturally asperated competition. When GM and Dodge reciprocated, Ford was again back of the pack.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Ford has been doing super charged V8s since 1958… (on and off). In a more relevant timespan… it had the supercharged V6 Supercoupe in 1989… the Gen2 Lightning in 1999 and it had the Terminator in 2003, the GT500 in 2007…

Now, let’s talk about Dodge… which to be honest, I didn’t pay much attention to in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s or early 2010s… when it came to making boost. lol. Here is why…
When I was a kid my brother had the Omni GLH… turbo 4. When I was in the market they had the Neon SRT4… followed that up with the Caliber SRT4, and it wasn’t until the Hellcat that they made something with enough power to get me excited. Can anyone help me fill in the blanks where Dodge was supercharging cars and making them cool before the Hellcat?

To be fair, I did buy a WK1 SRT8, but I had to turbo that myself.

 

[jonx96]

Ford has been doing super charged V8s since 1958… (on and off). In a more relevant timespan… it had the supercharged V6 Supercoupe in 1989… the Gen2 Lightning in 1999 and it had the Terminator in 2003, the GT500 in 2007…

Now, let’s talk about Dodge… which to be honest, I didn’t pay much attention to in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s or early 2010s… when it came to making boost. lol. Here is why…
When I was a kid my brother had the Omni GLH… turbo 4. When I was in the market they had the Neon SRT4… followed that up with the Caliber SRT4, and it wasn’t until the Hellcat that they made something with enough power to get me excited. Can anyone help me fill in the blanks where Dodge was supercharging cars and making them cool before the Hellcat?

To be fair, I did buy a WK1 SRT8, but I had to turbo that myself.

1970 challenger with a 426. 425 hp Not supercharged but for 1970 that was just insane.
Well Dodge had the Viper and the viper engine that they also put in a truck. Not supercharged but a v10
The first minute of this video is great

 

[EricG]

Ford has been doing super charged V8s since 1958… (on and off). In a more relevant timespan… it had the supercharged V6 Supercoupe in 1989… the Gen2 Lightning in 1999 and it had the Terminator in 2003, the GT500 in 2007…

Now, let’s talk about Dodge… which to be honest, I didn’t pay much attention to in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s or early 2010s… when it came to making boost. lol. Here is why…
When I was a kid my brother had the Omni GLH… turbo 4. When I was in the market they had the Neon SRT4… followed that up with the Caliber SRT4, and it wasn’t until the Hellcat that they made something with enough power to get me excited. Can anyone help me fill in the blanks where Dodge was supercharging cars and making them cool before the Hellcat?

To be fair, I did buy a WK1 SRT8, but I had to turbo that myself.

I had a new 300C SRT8 back in 2006 and that car rain high 12s at 110 on street tires, only thing I remember losing to was a brand new C6 vette, and it was close. All the other Vettes, Mustangs and LS1 F-bodies...etc hated it when I showed up at the track!

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

I’m aware of the NA power of the MOPARS of the past and the 6.1 and 6.4 SRT cars of the 2000s… but they didn’t supercharge anything cool until the Hellcat right?

The V10 Viper was slower than the V8 Z06 in 2006 (for reference) so who supercharged to beat who? lol

The SRT cars weren’t as quick as the Vettes or German cars of the day and struggled with the smaller and less powerful pony cars.

It took the Hellcat to make these big, heavy, Dodges fast again… and it took the Demon to put a little breathing room between us.

 

[cobrakid]

NOT directed at anybody here the poster etc.... BUT.... did anybody watch Roadkill Nights ?, especially the HellCat shoot out with the "influencers"?
….What a none driving bunch of people..... made us all look bad. Of course the announcers did a decent job, but didn't know their stuff completely either.

I mean, the girl had tubbed out HC with nitrous, so all SHE had to do was leave and GO, and blew the re-do final against a guy that put a clean pass together.
..and don't even get me started on Silver twin turbo Charger...I mean, I luv watching the guy's YouTube stuff, but drag racer he is NOT... #SAD!!!!
He had enough HP & potential by far to cover that field and couldn't get car down the first 300 feet cleanly at all.
Most over thought what they could do with the $10k extra they had to modify the cars. Honestly me analyzing it from my couch.... I would have put an awesome
wheel & tire package together, pulled off front sway bar...and sprayed it perhaps with a 100 shot of nitrous with colder plugs, and MS 109 in the tank.
Tell me that wouldn't have run a bare minimum of 10.5@135 with a decent leave "60ft" on that street. (?) .....and more likely a low 10.teen@137 on a prepped track.

...it is just funny, as I get bent when I let myself down and don't get great runs every pass...and I can almost tell you every time what happened. #excuses... LOL
To me in decent weather with a HellCat that is running well, and doesn't have a problem, should run a 10 second pass stock with "STICKY" tires on a 70* day.
I see it all the time at local tracks.... People need to be shown & understand the basics of drag racing...and the logic behind the HOOK off the line.
My brother never could understand why "I" could have a way slower car, but if it hooked, used the power it had....could whip a much quicker/more horsepower
car. He was under the impression if you missed 4th gear, or sprayed a 100 shot 3/4 down it made a huge difference...I tell people your good ET pass is all in the
first 300 feet. Anybody can shift through the gears quick at redline etc..... it is the understanding of 1/4 mile dragging of who wins. You simply can't make up a big GAP if
you blow the 60ft and the following 300 feet. I also love the fact that you can tree the ballz off of another car, and run way slower than they do/did...and win. that blows people's minds...

no flaming please.... again just my thoughts & opinions while I am at work...not working.. LOL

 

[vortecd]

NOT directed at anybody here the poster etc.... BUT.... did anybody watch Roadkill Nights ?, especially the HellCat shoot out with the "influencers"?
….What a none driving bunch of people..... made us all look bad. Of course the announcers did a decent job, but didn't know their stuff completely either.

I mean, the girl had tubbed out HC with nitrous, so all SHE had to do was leave and GO, and blew the re-do final against a guy that put a clean pass together.
..and don't even get me started on Silver twin turbo Charger...I mean, I luv watching the guy's YouTube stuff, but drag racer he is NOT... #SAD!!!!
He had enough HP & potential by far to cover that field and couldn't get car down the first 300 feet cleanly at all.
Most over thought what they could do with the $10k extra they had to modify the cars. Honestly me analyzing it from my couch.... I would have put an awesome
wheel & tire package together, pulled off front sway bar...and sprayed it perhaps with a 100 shot of nitrous with colder plugs, and MS 109 in the tank.
Tell me that wouldn't have run a bare minimum of 10.5@135 with a decent leave "60ft" on that street. (?) .....and more likely a low 10.teen@137 on a prepped track.

...it is just funny, as I get bent when I let myself down and don't get great runs every pass...and I can almost tell you every time what happened. #excuses... LOL
To me in decent weather with a HellCat that is running well, and doesn't have a problem, should run a 10 second pass stock with "STICKY" tires on a 70* day.
I see it all the time at local tracks.... People need to be shown & understand the basics of drag racing...and the logic behind the HOOK off the line.
My brother never could understand why "I" could have a way slower car, but if it hooked, used the power it had....could whip a much quicker/more horsepower
car. He was under the impression if you missed 4th gear, or sprayed a 100 shot 3/4 down it made a huge difference...I tell people your good ET pass is all in the
first 300 feet. Anybody can shift through the gears quick at redline etc..... it is the understanding of 1/4 mile dragging of who wins. You simply can't make up a big GAP if
you blow the 60ft and the following 300 feet. I also love the fact that you can tree the ballz off of another car, and run way slower than they do/did...and win. that blows people's minds...

no flaming please.... again just my thoughts & opinions while I am at work...not working.. LOL

There was a thread about roadkill on here. Traction is everything. The rematch was great when she got smoked
Also did it with no testing, said they didn't have a chance to

 

[moparjim]

"To me in decent weather with a HellCat that is running well, and doesn't have a problem, should run a 10 second pass stock with "STICKY" tires on a 70* day."

Exactly!!! Except in say a high altitude place.

Too often I see posts somewhere that someone asks why they run whatever time.
Often by a modified car struggling to run times or close to times my stock car runs.
Usually DA is brought up.
Well in 2000+ DA in the heat/humidity of the summer here my stock car will run in the 10's with a tenth or two to spare. Hell it did that last year while bleeding boost due to the cat recall. (We think that is the cause)

 

[Boris]

Ford has been doing super charged V8s since 1958… (on and off). In a more relevant timespan… it had the supercharged V6 Supercoupe in 1989… the Gen2 Lightning in 1999 and it had the Terminator in 2003, the GT500 in 2007…

Now, let’s talk about Dodge… which to be honest, I didn’t pay much attention to in the 80s, 90s, or early 2000s or early 2010s… when it came to making boost. lol. Here is why…
When I was a kid my brother had the Omni GLH… turbo 4. When I was in the market they had the Neon SRT4… followed that up with the Caliber SRT4, and it wasn’t until the Hellcat that they made something with enough power to get me excited. Can anyone help me fill in the blanks where Dodge was supercharging cars and making them cool before the Hellcat?

To be fair, I did buy a WK1 SRT8, but I had to turbo that myself.

I can't recall the name, but in the early 50s someone put a GMC blower on a Chrysler Hemi and went racing with it. The combo worked.

Dodge never had a supercharger on a V8.
Chevy used one on their Cobalt SS 4 cylinder then switched to a turbo.

GM experimented a lot with turbos in the 80s and 90s and had some pretty solid results. I don't remember if the LSA or LS9 was the first supercharged V8 from GM.